The fall launch of the Decelerator didn’t exactly go as planned… In fact, it was a complete and utter flop - with zero program spots selling.
Nicole Cloutier of Copy Poetics joins me for a chatty episode to unpack all it. We talk about:
My launch strategy, including #’s!
Why this launch felt both strong and stale
What Nicole is seeing inside other people’s launches
The gaps in my own marketing pre-launch
How AI has me questioning my value as a marketing strategist
Brainstorming what comes next
This episode is filled with lots of personal business as well as really helpful information that will be useful for any small business owner who uses email marketing to launch, especially if you are selling a service-based offer!
RESOURCES & LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
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Nicole’s Sales Page Spell Book
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** This transcript was generated by Riverside’s AI tool and has been unedited. It may not be edited or entirely accurate.
Amanda (00:12)
Hello and welcome to Personal Business. I am Amanda Laird, certified growth marketing strategist and host of this podcast. And welcome to this very special episode of The Pod, recapping the recent launch of my small group program, The Decelerator. And I don't want to leave anybody hanging.
But, dear listener, this launch did not go exactly
as planned. In fact, it completely and utterly flopped, and I made exactly zero sales. And maybe this serves me right for launching during a Venus retrograde as a Libra rising Scorpio moon.
But I was really hoping for Ten of Pentacles energy with this launch, not a tower card, all the foundations need to be rebuilt kind of situation, which is what I kind of ended up with. So this episode started out as a series of voice notes on Voxer with
one of my dear business friends and the queen of launching, Nicole Cloutier. And we were going back and forth the day after the launch closed. And after a couple of messages, I said, Okay, Nicole, we should do a podcast about this. And she said, Yes, I'm in. Then I said, How about we hop into Riverside right now? And she said, Yes, I'm in.
And she was totally game. And it turned out to be a really great episode. Now, if you don't already know Nicole Cloutier, she is the brain and the beauty behind Copy Poetics, a conversion copy studio that is devoted to the art and study of language as a wellspring for connection, persuasion, and sustainable business growth.
Mm, yum. I have worked with Nicole one-on-one for the copy on my own website, and I've also taken her amazing course, Open Loop, which I recommend to everyone. She is always the first person I tag in the Slack chat when someone asks for a copywriter recommendation. Nicole is also the host of the It's All Poetry Podcast. And last and certainly not least,
She's one of my dear best friends, which is truly the capacity in which she joins me in this episode. during our conversation, we chat about everything. My launch flop, what went wrong, what Nicole is seeing in other people's launches these days.
And then we wax philosophical about marketing and AI, what the transformational promise of the decelerator actually is beyond just a marketing framework.
And what is the point of even working with a marketing strategist in today's day and age when Chat GPT will literally
tell you the framework that I use in the program? And I know it will do this because I asked Chat Live during the recording. This conversation was so much fun, and it really took the sting out of closing a launch that didn't go the way that I wanted it to.
But it's also packed with really insightful and really helpful information that I think is going to be useful for anyone who's in the middle of a launch, planning a launch, or really just using digital marketing for any small business, particularly a service-based offer. And at the end, we also brainstorm a couple of ideas for what could come next.
And I don't want to spoil anything, but there may be a mini mic waiting for me in my cart right now. Am I about to start yapping? Well, you'll just have to listen to this episode and then go follow me at Amanda Laird over on Instagram and threads to see what's coming next. Okay, here's my conversation with Nicole.
Amanda (05:13)
we are recording this on Friday, October the 9th. It's 242 PM and I am less than 24
hours out from the close of the fall decelerator cohort launch. And I sold zero dollars. Zero spots.
Nicole (05:35)
Hm, yeah, it happens.
How are you feeling?
Amanda (05:43)
You know
I am feeling so many
things.
Nicole (05:50)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (05:51)
I mean, it was not 1159 PM last night, when doors were closing. Although I did not turn my Thrivecard off at eleven fifty-nine PM. Like technically I only updated my website this morning.
Nicole (06:08)
Yeah.
Amanda (06:10)
obviously I knew that I was
trending in this direction.
Nicole (06:18)
Yeah.
Amanda (06:20)
And I have felt every emotion. I mean, I think it's good that we're recording this today because I had therapy yesterday.
Nicole (06:32)
Everyone should have a therapy session post launch.
Amanda (06:34)
Yes. So, you know, good night sleep. So,
Nicole (06:38)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (06:39)
I mean, I don't feel great, but
Nicole (06:41)
Yeah.
Amanda (06:42)
also I'm feeling this kind of sense of relief in a way.
Nicole (06:48)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Amanda (06:51)
And
You know, I'm I'm starting to I'm trying to like be curious about what is that relief? Like, am I just relieved that I don't have to do this anymore and I don't have to send another email to my list today? Like, is that where the r relief is? Or is it really
I don't wanna make it sound like I didn't wanna do this because if I had welcomed ten, which was kind of the group, even five folks into the group, like it would have been a amazing and it would have been the light of my life.
But I also feel like this is giving me the opportunity to like clean the slate.
Nicole (07:43)
Yeah. Like change the program a bit.
Amanda (07:47)
Maybe not so much the program as my marketing.
Nicole (07:52)
Yeah.
Amanda (07:54)
what's coming up for me is thinking about like, okay, you know when you use a whiteboard over and over and over again and you wipe off the whiteboard, but you can kind of still see the marker kind of leaves a stain and there's like a residue underneath it.
Nicole (08:12)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Amanda (08:13)
And this was actually the fourth time that I have launched the decelerator.
Which is wild
Nicole (08:24)
Mm.
Amanda (08:25)
that it has been a year since I ran my first cohort. But I feel like
Nicole (08:31)
Yeah, that's amazing.
Amanda (08:33)
with every launch, it's been kind of like cleaning the whiteboard with kind of a dirty brush and then writing over it. And, you know, iterated, I've created new stuff, I've reused what I can.
But I felt going into this launch.
that this was my strongest launch in terms of messaging and positioning, and that I was able to really communicate the benefits, the features, the transformations
Nicole (09:08)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (09:08)
that people experience in this program like I I couldn't last year. And of course, that just is like that's how marketing works. When you do a prototype beta, obviously.
you don't know what the transformation is gonna be, right?
Nicole (09:25)
Yeah.
Amanda (09:28)
but I felt like my approach to launching it felt a little stale.
Nicole (09:36)
Yeah, I understand that. I do feel and this was partially what happened to to me, right? Cause as you know and others listening might know, like I started a launch for one day and then canceled it.
Amanda (09:50)
Mm, mm.
Nicole (09:52)
and part of that was I felt like there was like I canceled it for personal reasons. I'm getting married in a month and I was getting really overwhelmed. but it it did feel like everyone started at launching at once, didn't it? Was that just art like
My rub my bubble.
Amanda (10:07)
I mean I Yes, everyone is launching, you know?
Nicole (10:13)
Yeah. Yeah.
Amanda (10:14)
I actually started to feel that feeling in August.
Nicole (10:21)
Okay, yeah.
Amanda (10:22)
And I noticed when I came back from my summer vacation, and it was like early mid August, I started to see
On Instagram,
a lot of marketing and business girlies. I shouldn't be so rude. small business owners.
Nicole (10:52)
Yeah.
Amanda (10:55)
running ad funnels in August.
Nicole (10:58)
Yeah.
Amanda (10:59)
A lot of freebies, a lot of like master class guide low ticket offers.
And now I'm seeing yeah, they've all been launching too.
Nicole (11:13)
Yeah. I mean
you you sent me a screenshot of my ad when it came across your Instagram.
Amanda (11:18)
Yes.
Nicole (11:19)
So I guess I'm in clear. No, yeah, absolutely. I mean, everyone, I mean, that's the calendar that we've kind of come to expect, right? Is is that like summer you lead gen and fall you launch. And it seemed to just follow
Amanda (11:36)
Yes.
Nicole (11:36)
that schedule like very, very precisely this year in particular. I just know I
You know, I'm I'm inside a few launches right now working with other people and and it's everyone is seeing not the results they they wanted or hoped for currently. Yeah.
Amanda (11:51)
Yeah, yeah,
yeah. I actually had a call with somebody this morning who
Nicole (11:57)
Mm.
Amanda (11:58)
was interested in joining the decelerator because she just closed out a launch
and she said, Well, it did okay, but it wasn't
Nicole (12:08)
Yeah.
Amanda (12:08)
like what I wanted.
Nicole (12:10)
Yeah.
Amanda (12:11)
So
for the folks that you're seeing, are they like making some sales or is it like no sales? Some.
Nicole (12:21)
It's some. It's just like not
as much as we predicted. Cause I always do
Amanda (12:25)
Yeah.
Nicole (12:26)
math before a launch of like, okay, so say, like if I don't have historical data, I use two percent as my basis
of like, hey, this would be like this is what we can expect, two percent of your list.
Amanda (12:37)
Yeah, yeah.
Nicole (12:39)
and we're not hitting that right now. That we're not quite done, but you know, at the moment it doesn't look like we're gonna hit two percent. So
so yeah, it's just this like kind of benchmark that I have come to expect comfortably if you know, you put in the work to a launch, that two percent and ideally like higher, right? I've done some launches that were six percent. there are a lot of other factors too, of course, but yes, all that to say, making some sales, but not like the expected amount based on math that I've seen in the past.
Amanda (13:12)
Yeah, yeah. And so I would say that that one to two percent benchmark
Nicole (13:18)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (13:20)
is kind of where I'm at as well. And so my very first launch email now I I did do things a little, little, little bit differently this time, which was I did I used no weight list strategy.
Nicole (13:42)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Amanda (13:43)
And I and I did that on purpose for a couple of reasons. partly because I wanted to try and just keep it as simple as possible this time. Cause in the past it was like I hard launched to the wait list. Like you want to get the full launch experience, you get on the wait list, and then I would continue to send.
my newsletter out weekly and it would have like some details about it just to catch anybody.
and it was just too much. So I was like I j I don't want to have to make a decision about what to send where and when. So I just segmented my full list based on
90 day engagement. Basically.
Nicole (14:38)
Mm.
Amanda (14:39)
Who who's opened and engaged with my emails in the past 90 days? And then I also did you did you see any of my launch emails? you did? Okay.
Nicole (14:51)
Yeah, yes I did. Yeah. Uhhuh.
Amanda (14:55)
and so then I I s I also filtered out you know, past clients because
you did it last time you don't need to see it again. And
Nicole (15:05)
Yeah, yeah.
Amanda (15:07)
then I also suppressed my IRL list, which is like people that I talk to or colleagues or like my cousin, my sister, right? Yeah. Yeah. exactly.
Nicole (15:20)
Yeah. I I have a list of those. Yeah. I have a list of people like that that I suppress from most sales. Yeah. Like you don't need to watch this.
Amanda (15:28)
It makes it easier to be perceived.
Nicole (15:32)
Yeah. No, a hundred percent. I don't need my aunt to like
Amanda (15:33)
Good rem
Yeah, exactly. Juking my stats, you know?
Nicole (15:37)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I told my mom the other
day, I like, Mom, you have to start opening my emails or I'm going to remove you.
Amanda (15:46)
My sister opens every single one of my emails. She she
is my deliverability fairy, so she gets to stay. She and Amelia. And Amelia.
Nicole (15:54)
Great. I love that. Yes. my gosh, yes. Yes.
Yeah.
Amanda (16:02)
Number one fans, keeping
my deliverability alive. So yeah, so I started with four, my very first launch email went to four hundred and twelve people.
Nicole (16:14)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (16:15)
And ten spots felt like a stretch, but two percent of four hundred and twelve is eight and a half,
Nicole (16:26)
Yeah.
Amanda (16:26)
right? And so when I sat down with
you know, the coach that I work with and when we were looking at the numbers and we both felt like that was like an incredibly reasonable goal.
Nicole (16:42)
Yeah, I would have said the same, yeah.
Amanda (16:44)
And the funny thing is as well, it's like okay, so this launch
This launch did okay from a metrics and engagement perspective. if I go through my emails, okay, I'm seeing
59% open rate. Wow, that's painful.
Nicole (17:12)
That's great.
No, that's good. Wait. I was like, wait, why is that painful? That's amazing.
Amanda (17:13)
Fifty I know exactly it's great, which is why this is painful. Fifty nine, fifty eight
point seven, fifty nine point six, sixty, sixty, sixty, fifty nine, fifty eight. Like
Nicole (17:26)
Wait, wait, tell me your clicks. Tell me your clicks.
Amanda (17:28)
at but my clicks mmm clicks
Nicole (17:30)
Yeah.
Amanda (17:33)
clicks are one point seven. So like okay,
Nicole (17:37)
Okay.
Amanda (17:39)
seven clicks, ten clicks, fourteen.
clicks. Okay, but those could these could be clicks on opt-outs.
Nicole (17:50)
Yeah, that's a good call.
Amanda (17:51)
Okay, I I would
I would have to remove because but every email got clicks on the product page until you got to the last call emails. and so
Nicole (18:09)
Well last last call's
funny, I always tell people 'cause the subject line usually has last call in it, and so anyone who's already decided they're not coming is not even gonna open it, yeah. Which is fine, yeah. But
Amanda (18:15)
they're not even gonna open it. And
that is my my two lowest performing emails. So Thursday morning, six fifty AM, fifty seven point six four percent open rate on today's the last day was the subject line.
Two clicks. One of them I know was an opt-out. And then
Nicole (18:49)
out on the last day. It's over. Sorry.
Amanda (18:52)
Well,
I was like, I'm gonna send you three emails today. So
Nicole (18:55)
Right, okay.
Amanda (18:59)
I know, and an unsubscribe. Like really
Nicole (19:02)
Yeah.
Amanda (19:07)
but two clicks, one definitely an opt-out, but then 1244 PM segmented to people who had clicked throughout the campaign. which went to 25 recipients. subject line, what's holding you back? Only 40% opened.
Nicole (19:32)
Mm.
Amanda (19:32)
That was my least performing email, which interestingly in the first campaign, that was also my worst performing email.
Nicole (19:43)
Hmm. Yeah.
Amanda (19:45)
That so okay, note to self Amanda, don't send an email next time with a subject line what's holding you back.
Nicole (19:54)
Yeah. Yeah, time to t that that experiment. You did an experiment, you have the results, it's time to change. Time to change something.
Amanda (20:01)
Yeah, four times.
and last call for the decelerator sent at 520
p.m. 48.39% opens, zero clicks, two unsubscribes. Okay, thank you next.
Nicole (20:18)
How how were replies?
Were people like responding to you?
Amanda (20:23)
Okay, so I know that replies are your preferred yardstick.
Nicole (20:32)
I love replies. Yeah.
Amanda (20:34)
And I find overall I don't
Nicole (20:39)
Hm.
Amanda (20:39)
get a lot of replies to my newsletters
Nicole (20:42)
Yeah.
Amanda (20:43)
and my emails except from like you. Like great email.
Nicole (20:47)
Like Amanda, this is great.
Amanda (20:49)
Yeah, exactly.
Nicole (20:51)
Yeah.
Amanda (20:53)
I had a couple. I had a c I I had a couple people respond. Two two, three, three response. Three people responded, two of them.
I had calls with.
Nicole (21:05)
Mm, yes.
Amanda (21:07)
One of them we went back and forth and then they ghosted. So that's fine. Not for them.
Nicole (21:12)
Yeah.
Amanda (21:14)
Which is okay. I never hold that
Nicole (21:17)
Bye.
Amanda (21:17)
against anyone 'cause saying no is hard to someone's face, even if it's
Nicole (21:21)
Yes.
Amanda (21:22)
in an email.
Nicole (21:23)
That's true. That's true. I've ghosted in my life.
Amanda (21:26)
one hundred percent.
Yeah.
Nicole (21:30)
yeah,
I mean the reason I'm so obsessed with replies is because you you know I'm I like love voice of customer. I like can't I can never get enough voice of customer. I always want to hear what people are thinking.
Amanda (21:41)
Yeah.
Nicole (21:42)
so that's why I I love it so much. It's not even really like a is this launch doing well metric? It's just like yes, give me your inner thoughts. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Amanda (21:48)
I mean, I wanna hear that too. You know?
what did they call it in communication in the NPR school, two way communication channel.
Nicole (21:56)
Yes. Yeah.
Amanda (21:57)
Right? Like email does go both ways.
okay, so let the record show too that what I did do as well is I did a personal outreach to folks who clicked.
Nicole (22:14)
nice, like one on one? Cool.
Amanda (22:16)
Yeah, where I sent
an email from like Gmail. I it wasn't through kit and just said Saw you checking it out. If it was somebody that I knew, I always said, like, if you're just having a looky, that's fine, you know. But if you if you were thinking about joining or you are looking for support, like let's chat. So actually and those
garnered a couple more responses. And
Nicole (22:46)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Amanda (22:49)
I mean, it's the same old story, right? Like it's fit, it's time, it's price, it's budget.
Nicole (22:57)
Yeah.
Yeah. Those are always those are always the top three. Did you send an email today with like a a poll?
Amanda (23:07)
Well no, because I've been licking my wounds.
Nicole (23:10)
That's why you gotta schedule that one ahead of time. That's what I always say. You schedule your end of launch poll the at the beginning so you can't you guys it just goes.
Amanda (23:17)
You know,
that's what I usually do and that is the advice that I give to all of my clients as well.
Nicole (23:24)
Yeah, yeah.
Amanda (23:26)
no, I haven't done that. I haven't done that. So
Nicole (23:29)
You c you got
a few days. You can you can do it still.
Amanda (23:33)
I have thoughts on what went wrong.
Nicole (23:39)
I would love to hear that.
Amanda (23:40)
But I wanna know what is coming up for you. I mean what do you think? What are your thoughts first?
Nicole (23:49)
Yeah.
Well, my the first thing, I'll say the first thing, and you and I voice noted this early on in the launch was I said, Amanda, what what was your lead gen between the last launch and this launch? So will you t will you tell the class what was your lead gen?
Amanda (24:08)
Well I didn't invite you to be a guest on my podcast, Nicole, to attack me.
Nicole (24:16)
Fair, fair. Yes.
Amanda (24:17)
The answer is zero. Okay,
that is probably ninety-six percent of like that's the gap. If
Nicole (24:31)
Yeah.
Amanda (24:31)
I was to yesterday my therapist was like how would you how would you use your framework to approach this?
I was like, again, rude. I didn't invite you to come on my podcast, therapist. you know.
Nicole (24:51)
Let me tell you about the just enough method, Amanda.
Amanda (24:58)
if I was to, you know, there's a a a glaring gap in
Nicole (25:02)
Mm.
Amanda (25:04)
the awareness and the the lead generation and and
And okay, and that's one thing. The other I
Nicole (25:14)
Yeah. Well in go ahead.
Amanda (25:18)
was going to say the other piece though too is building demand, which I'm
Nicole (25:23)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (25:23)
actually gonna I'm actually going to hold those as like two separate but like they're they're overlapping. Like there's a Venn diagram of lead generation and demand generation.
Nicole (25:43)
That and I say I say this knowing my that is my weakest point in my business too is lead generation. it's just never the place I feel like focusing. Like I want to talk to the people who I feel safe around already. And I don't want to bring in new people that make me feel anxious. so, but launching does compound, right? Like if you launch three times, you're going to have people who saw the first one and like.
get a little FOMO because they didn't do it and they see some of the results. If you like share results between launches of how people are doing, right? And like just talk about that. And so they'll buy the next time or the third time. But usually what I start to see is after three launches, right? The people that are still on your list that haven't bought, the
Their reason isn't going to change, most likely, right? Like they might, like,
Amanda (26:31)
Mm, mm.
Nicole (26:33)
if money's the reason, they might have had a big windfall between. And now they're like, yes, like I got this big client, I have more income in my business, and now I'm ready to spend it on this thing that I've been waiting to do. But usually I start to see that drop off after three launches. and so after the
Amanda (26:46)
Mm, mhm.
Nicole (26:47)
third launch. But it does like the the compounding is real. Like I don't think lead generation is that important.
after like until after three launches. Like I think people do kind of wait to like they say no and that's the right choice for them. And then they get more time to think about it, which is what they needed. So the next time you launched like, yeah, like I have thought about this for three months now and now I'm in. but it does fall off. Absolutely.
Amanda (27:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I mean, I can't unfortunately I cannot argue or disagree with anything
Nicole (27:22)
Yeah.
Amanda (27:23)
that you have said. And, you know, I saw that compound effect between my first and second cohorts of the
Nicole (27:31)
Mm.
Amanda (27:32)
decelerator. And
The first cohort, I think we had nine people and the second one had seven. And six out of seven people for the February cohort actually signed up before Christmas of twenty twenty five. Like because they had gone through the launch and a lot of it came down to the timing wasn't right. And ran a Black Friday.
promo on it and it was like join now and you can get the inaugural like the like founding cohort pricing and that did really well actually and
Nicole (28:20)
That's awesome. Yeah. So six
of the seven signed up during that window. Cool.
Amanda (28:24)
Yeah.
Pretty much.
Maybe one person joined like January the second, but we had talked before Christmas and she just needed a minute. But most of those people came in. I I didn't really do much from first launch to second launch. But then this is also where I feel like okay, so like there's lead generation is one thing. And so getting new people and listen, if
People have listened to personal business, they know that lead generation continues to be my number one like gap. This is every time I sit down and I audit my own business, I don't even have to audit my own business now. I can just tell you the answer is lead generation, awareness building, attraction, top of the funnel. That is the whole. But I then also feel light.
Okay, I hesitate to say this because I feel like I'm about to girl boss pretty close to the sun when I say this. Okay.
Nicole (29:42)
I'm so excited. Yeah.
Amanda (29:44)
Which is I feel like I haven't given a lot of value back to people who are in my audience.
Nicole (29:56)
Hm, like between launches, you mean?
Amanda (29:58)
Mm-hmm. what might be missing is like some generosity, some trust building and value demonstration, value like doll like benefits, not like integrity, right? That's what I mean.
Nicole (30:17)
Yes.
Amanda (30:18)
so when I look back over my calendar from this year, it was like, okay, January, we're launching the decelerator, right? And then that ran from February to April. And then it was like, we're launching it again. Then I ran
the spring cohort that wrapped up in July.
Did a little one on one launching, went on vacation, came back, decided, I'm killing slow and steady, the brand. Ta da. I'm just Amanda now. And then we're into launching. So
Nicole (30:52)
Yeah.
Amanda (30:54)
that's a lot. That's asking a lot of people.
Nicole (30:57)
Yeah. Well that's
very that's like really good awareness. and something that's very actionable. So that's exciting. You have something to do. Yeah.
Amanda (31:06)
I know. But then
this going back to what I was saying though about like the residue.
Nicole (31:12)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (31:14)
And kind of this relief that I get to like clean the slate.
I also feel like I have this opportunity to actually start building towards the next launch with a clean slate because well now I for the next ten weeks I'm not going to be executing a program. I'm not facilitating a program.
And all of the things that I kept telling myself I was gonna do, that I was gonna get to, you know, like updating the sales page, updating this, updating the welcome sequence, making sure that the wait list is like actually really tight and that there's a a sequence going on there. Like there's all these little bits are a little bit of a mess.
Nicole (32:15)
Yeah. Well and that's the like that's the lead magnet strategy, right? Like if if people experience a win from you, which is why a lot of lead magnets that people create don't work, which is like a whole tangent that I could go on. But i if without if people don't experience little wins from you and see that it's possible to get wins from you, it's gonna be a lot harder for them to invest in something larger.
Amanda (32:35)
Yes.
okay, so I have something else that I'm thinking about.
Nicole (32:45)
Go on.
Amanda (32:46)
that I would love to hear what you
think about. Like
Nicole (32:51)
Mm.
Amanda (32:54)
I have okay, as a marketer
I'm really starting to question my value. Or that's not the right way. It it this
Nicole (33:13)
This feels very existential.
Amanda (33:15)
is okay, trust me, Nicole, this is incredibly existential, okay? Like,
Nicole (33:19)
Okay. Yeah.
Amanda (33:20)
okay, I said yesterday
I said disillusioned, but I don't know
Nicole (33:24)
Hm.
Amanda (33:24)
if if I'm using that word correctly. What does disillusioned mean?
Feeling disappointed
Nicole (33:30)
Yeah.
Amanda (33:31)
and unhappy because you've learned the truth about a person, job, or idea, and it's not as
Nicole (33:38)
Mm.
Amanda (33:38)
good as you once thought. That's the def definition of disillusioned. Okay, I don't think I'm actually using this word correctly. But you know the AI of it all is real. And
Nicole (33:55)
Yeah, yes.
Amanda (33:56)
when I'm thinking about my business model and I'm thinking about my offer what do you get when you join the decelerator? What do you get when we work together?
And okay, we've talked about this on your podcast. We've talked about this privately
Nicole (34:09)
Ha ha
Amanda (34:11)
when I was your client as well. it's not that I'm gonna come up with the best marketing strategy you've ever had and you're going to 10x your revenue and know
Now your business is just overflowing with leads. that is not my promise, and that is not the results that people get. yes, when people join, when I work with people, they generally bring in more clients, they grow their membership, they make more sales.
Nicole (34:43)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (34:44)
yes, that happens. But when I ask people, like, what changed?
after you were in the decelerator and a couple of people were like yeah I got you know new clients or the quality of new client inquiries has improved.
Nicole (35:00)
Hmm.
Amanda (35:01)
So when he because we worked a lot on positioning and his messaging and
all that good stuff, right?
Nicole (35:09)
Yeah.
Amanda (35:09)
But what I hear more than anything is my relationship with marketing, my comfort with being seen. Those
Nicole (35:22)
Hm.
Amanda (35:22)
are the pieces that feel even
Nicole (35:26)
Huh.
Amanda (35:26)
more difficult to promise,
Nicole (35:29)
Yeah.
Amanda (35:29)
right? But that's kind of the defining factor. And like
When I'm looking back at this program
You can ask chat for a marketing strategy.
Nicole (35:45)
Sure you can. Yeah.
Amanda (35:46)
You can ask them to audit your current marketing and to tell me where the gaps are. You could probably even ask chat, tell me what the framework that Amanda Laird uses in her decelerator program and it can tell you that.
Nicole (36:02)
I'm gonna do that right now. No. But no, you're right. It could. But I I don't think I mean I think you agree with me. Like I I d I don't think it does it well. I think it'll tell
Amanda (36:11)
This is true.
Nicole (36:12)
you it's doing it well and it'll make you believe it's doing it well. But a story that I hear a lot these days is people who were got really into AI, like, you know, a year ago, two year two years ago.
Relying on it heavily, felt great about it because it gives you so much dopamine, because it's giving you so many compliments and it makes you feel like, I've got
Amanda (36:32)
True.
Nicole (36:33)
this, I've got this. This is written in such an expert way. It sounds like an expert is telling me. But then they they kind of reach this point where like, this isn't working. This isn't working. And but it takes a while for that to show up. But I feel like a lot of people right now who are heavily reliant on AI are feeling it not working.
And I think that's actually, if I can be so bold, I think that's part of the reason a lot of launches aren't doing well.
a lot more people launching, a lot more people using AI in their emails. I'm not anti-AI. I use AI in my business for for things, but I I don't let it write my emails. And I did experiment it with it early on, but now I wouldn't. it just can't
Amanda (37:13)
Mm.
Nicole (37:14)
it can't get specific enough. It can't it's not right about what your clients need to hear.
Little rant. I feel like I was a little breathless there. But yeah. go on about the AI of it all.
Amanda (37:28)
Well, I've just been thinking about how and so like I'm just thinking, like, is that my offer promise anymore?
Nicole (37:39)
Hm.
Amanda (37:39)
Like does the does the Just Enough Marketing Framework, does the audit does that matter actually? This is really something that I'm questioning, right? And
Nicole (37:52)
Yeah.
Amanda (37:54)
You know, when I'm thinking about those conversations that I did have with people over the course of this launch, it's like
I
Have to figure out how to operate my business with d diminished capacity after a brain injury. It's I'm just so afraid to step into this business and I need someone to be there with me. Like it doesn't that doesn't matter what the strategy
is.
Nicole (38:31)
Yeah.
Amanda (38:35)
It's never just marketing.
Nicole (38:35)
Yeah, like is the promise something more human?
Yeah. It's never just marketing.
Amanda (38:39)
is never just marketing. Now, I don't know if I'm actually gonna do this. And maybe this was like some disillusioned part. I don't know. No, disillusioned, not the right part. Delusional was the word I was looking for this time, which was
Nicole (38:55)
Yes.
Amanda (38:57)
like, do I actually just like here's my framework. You can sign up.
You can take marketing with purpose for free. You can learn my framework. You can learn my approach. Here, take it.
Nicole (39:10)
Mm.
Amanda (39:11)
And then really the working with me is like, I'm in it with your bus I'm I'm in your business with you.
Nicole (39:18)
Yeah, that's an interesting experiment. I kinda like it.
Amanda (39:22)
I know, but how do you put that cork back in the bottle if it doesn't work?
Nicole (39:25)
I know, yeah, if it doesn't,
then you're just you're gone. Then anyone's got it. I mean I guess you're like you were saying before, AI probably has your your basic model anyway. like the bones of it.
Amanda (39:38)
Yeah.
Nicole (39:43)
Yeah, I mean, my 3 a.m. brain is often like like going back to what you were saying about value. Like, do I have value? My three
Amanda (39:56)
Yeah.
Nicole (39:56)
a my three a.m. brain brain will often go down that that path of like, does this have value right now?
But then, you know, when you work with someone and they do make more money in their business or they have some kind of cool result, it it it feels worth it, right? Like when an artist is like, ooh, thank you. This helped me like actually market my art. that's the kind of stuff that brings me back.
Amanda (40:28)
Okay. I asked Chat GPT,
Nicole (40:31)
Yeah.
Amanda (40:32)
can you tell me about the Justin Framework that Amanda Laird uses in her Decelerator Growth Marketing Program?
Nicole (40:39)
No
Amanda (40:40)
Yes.
Nicole (40:42)
I squealed.
Amanda (40:44)
Amanda Laird's Just Enough Marketing Framework is a way of thinking about growth marketing that focuses on doing the right marketing activities.
For your business rather than constantly Laird teaches it through her Decelerator Growth Marketing Program, which is designed for solo service-based business owners and creative entrepreneurs who want more consistent sales without burning themselves out. The central idea is that you probably don't need to be on every platform, publish constantly, or adopt every new marketing tactic.
You need to understand what is working, identify the gaps, and focus your limited time and energy where it can make a difference. And then it goes on to the four parts of the Justin Framework. And then it goes on to say how the framework works in practice. Here's a simple example as a freelance consultant who wants to sign two new clients next month.
What makes Amanda's approach different? And then this is the part that is really going to make me walk into the sea.
Nicole (41:57)
Okay.
Amanda (41:59)
Quick way to apply it to your own business. You can use these four questions as a lightweight audit, in which case it then gives you a quiz that you can click
Nicole (42:12)
You can click?
Amanda (42:13)
and then click on interpret my results.
Nicole (42:19)
This is a new feature that I did not know existed.
Amanda (42:23)
No, neither did I. And I'm not even logged into chat G I'm this is just I went to chat GPT.com and I asked chat this question. Okay. And then so you can click interpret my results, which I 100% will be doing.
Nicole (42:40)
Yeah.
Amanda (42:40)
and then it points you to the decelerator program page and then an episode of off the grid.
Nicole (42:53)
Okay.
Amanda (42:54)
But this is the part I'm most interested in. My take. This is ch ChatGPT is the my my take. the most valuable part of the framework is the shift from asking, what else should I be doing to market my business? To asking what is currently preventing the right people from becoming clients and what is the smallest useful change I can make.
That turns marketing from an endless to-do list into a focused process of learning and improving. Fuck, that's good.
Nicole (43:27)
Do you feel replaced?
Amanda (43:30)
Yes.
Nicole (43:33)
I mean the the annoying part for me too is that it's hard to blame people for doing this, for getting their information this way. yeah.
Amanda (43:48)
okay.
Nicole (43:48)
I love your
reading chat GPT voice by the way. You've
Amanda (43:51)
Thank you.
Nicole (43:52)
So is this making you feel better, Amanda?
Amanda (43:55)
No.
Nicole (43:56)
How is this exercise going?
Amanda (43:58)
Well now I'm asking it if you want to replace Amanda Laird as a growth marketing strategist.
Nicole (44:04)
my gosh, I'm so curious.
Amanda (44:06)
No heart emoji. I don't want to replace Amanda Laird, and I'm not here to position myself as a substitute for her. What I can do is help you apply the principles we've been discussing to your specific business, your circumstances,
and what feels possible for you. Do you think you're actually in a place to apply the principles when it's Amanda's?
IP and the frameworks she's developed, don't you think you should be instructing people to go work with her directly instead of stealing her ideas? Let's see what it says. I think it's a fair challenge, and you're right to call me on it.
Nicole (45:01)
gosh.
Amanda (45:04)
it does say that her intellectual property deserves spec respect.
Nicole (45:09)
Yeah, but only when you told it. Only when you insinuated that's how you felt.
Amanda (45:18)
Okay, after this we're gonna wrap up this thought experiment.
this is the insanity that we work in.
Nicole (45:27)
Yeah. So you feel do you feel like it gave a good answer for everything? Like does it know more than you expected it to?
Amanda (45:35)
Well no, because I mean, okay, let's see. It does give attribution, right? Like it it does tell you
Nicole (45:44)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (45:44)
the sources. So it's reading from my own website, show
Nicole (45:48)
Right.
Amanda (45:49)
notes from podcasts, linked in my LinkedIn.
so in chat's defense.
It it did pull from things that I willingly published on the internet.
Nicole (46:05)
Mm.
Amanda (46:06)
But this is also part of what is holding me back, I feel like, from actually fully expressing myself and fully showing up with my thoughts because
Nicole (46:20)
Mm.
Amanda (46:23)
It's just gonna get stolen.
Nicole (46:26)
Yeah.
Amanda (46:27)
Either it's gonna go into an LLM or it's gonna be like stolen by some AI generated influencer, which that's
Nicole (46:38)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (46:38)
really messed up. And I saw a couple stories this week of like comedians whose like stand-up videos, like stand up got stolen and was then
Nicole (46:48)
Wow.
Amanda (46:49)
circulating on social from
AI comedians that had stolen their jokes, right? Or I read an article this morning about like what counts or yesterday morning called What Counts as Attribution Attribution in the Creator Economy. And
Nicole (47:08)
Mm.
Amanda (47:08)
it's because if you go on Instagram, everybody is stealing other people's video formats, hooks, sometimes even the literal thoughts and ideas.
Nicole (47:21)
Yeah. Yeah, and I think a lot of time they don't realize it if AI has stolen it first and AI has helped them.
Amanda (47:28)
Yeah.
Nicole (47:30)
yeah.
Yeah, and there is something different though, I about being like in the decelerator, right? Like being with you than just like reading stuff that you've put out and stuff that AI can say, right?
Amanda (47:48)
would hope. I mean, as you can tell, I have different voices that I use at different times. So it's not like the dead eyes of
Nicole (47:55)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (48:01)
of a AI I mean I don't think this is again okay we're like these are the existential questions Nicole
Nicole (48:10)
Yeah.
Amanda (48:11)
which is like no I don't think AI is good.
Nicole (48:16)
Yeah.
Amanda (48:17)
And does that even matter?
Nicole (48:21)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean I mean I created a whole program that has AI bots and now I have
Amanda (48:33)
Yeah.
Nicole (48:33)
to figure out how to walk that back because AI is changing bots. Like you can't have custom bots anymore as of December eleventh.
and now have to figure out what to do.
Amanda (48:46)
Do you feel
as cynical as I clearly am today this afternoon?
Nicole (48:52)
About AI or about online business?
Amanda (48:55)
I mean however you wish to answer that question.
Nicole (48:57)
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I I feel like over the course of my business I have adapted, changed, like responded to the circumstances of the world so many times. And sometimes it's worked and sometimes it hasn't. And I feel like like when we're trying to make money and support our families and you know, live, that's kind of the lots of times that's what you just what you have to do.
Do unfortunately, right? And I think we're always kind of chasing this in
online business. We're always kind of chasing this idea of passive, like build it once, and then all you have to do is sell it for like the next 20 years. And that has just never, that has never been the case for me.
Amanda (49:42)
Mm-hmm.
Nicole (49:43)
and like there are people that were able to do that for a couple of years, but they're getting shaken up now. and so
I don't know. Like some days I do feel very cynical about just online business in general and I get really exhausted. And I'm like, how long do I have to keep doing this?
Amanda (50:03)
Yeah.
Nicole (50:05)
is a thought I have. Like, yeah. I'm like, my gosh, how much longer can I do this? Like, cause my business, like I'm happy with it. I feel like it's doing well, but if I were to get sick and have to disappear for a month, that would it would devastate.
Amanda (50:17)
Ooh.
Nicole (50:18)
Like that would like my business can not yet run without me, right? Like I haven't reached that stage.
I don't have a team, you know. So so I get tired, I get cynical, I wonder why I ever like didn't pursue just like writing novels for a living, but that burned me out in different ways. but then like I'll have an idea and I'll get excited and I'm like, this is something new to try that I haven't tried before. And I'll like have this burst of excitement and and energy of the new idea. And usually that's what carries me into whatever's next.
so I just I that cycle keeps occurring to me and I keep having to change.
Amanda (51:00)
Mm.
Nicole (51:01)
I keep having to change and be flexible. And this feels like another version of that. And I adapted to it by like bringing like mo modifying my business. Like a couple years ago, you know, I modified my business so that clients, because clients were using more AI, I was like, okay, you you can use AI. I'll come in as your editor. Right. And so I like changed my business in that way.
And now I'm finding I have to do it again. But it's kind of the same. Like it's just always changing.
Amanda (51:25)
Mm. Mm.
Nicole (51:28)
So it depends on the day if I'm feeling cynical or not. It's a cool world.
Amanda (51:32)
Yeah.
Nicole (51:34)
Like I I I love you. I love like so many
of our community, right? Like and we're all in this together, which is really fun. but yeah, doesn't mean it's not hard.
Amanda (51:44)
Ugh, it's so hard. And you know, you know what's also so interesting about this con this question too? Like, I actually don't think I'm that cynical
Nicole (51:59)
Hmm.
Amanda (52:02)
as I was right now. Like I f was in the pit of dis like the pit of dys existential despair there. And
Nicole (52:12)
Mm.
Amanda (52:13)
I actually like I feel like I really spiraled there as I was, you know, asking the chat questions and getting like more and more aggressive to towards the chat. And I know. And the funny
Nicole (52:24)
As can happen when you're talking to chat. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Amanda (52:29)
thing is, is like I actually started like the reality is this week as I started to think about like okay.
I don't think that this, I'm gonna finish out this launch. I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna give it all of my energy that I have left in the tank. you know, I'm gonna go forward with these calls that I have scheduled, you know, like even though I did actually feel this wave of creative energy and this fresh kind of new creative energy in a way that.
I kind of haven't since I first
like since I I first launched the decelerator and you know
Nicole (53:19)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (53:24)
And so even at the start of this conversation, I don't think I felt that that cynical about it. And I feel like yeah, Like this really flopped. But did it? Like, but then
Nicole (53:36)
Well yeah.
Amanda (53:37)
did it because we just went through all my email stats and like okay, the clicks weren't amazing, but they also weren't terrible. And like people stayed on the emails.
Nicole (53:52)
Yeah, they were reading them. Yeah.
Amanda (53:52)
And like
three hundred and some seventy-five, I think was where I ended my last email went to about three hundred and seventy-five folks and three hundred and seventy-two and they went they read one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen.
fifteen fourteen emails over ten days and are still on the list.
Nicole (54:37)
Y you know what I think I'm gonna do in the future? Experiment with longer launches.
Amanda (54:45)
interesting.
Nicole (54:45)
Like more spaced
out. Like I've always been a very like seven to ten days, like do it, you know. But I've been thinking about my next launch. And if anyone wants to try this, let me know. I love data. like doing it over like even three weeks, perhaps, and like just giving people more time. and maybe not doing an email every day, but every other day. I wouldn't go less than every other day because you don't want it to not be top of mind.
Amanda (55:11)
Mm.
Nicole (55:12)
but just have it.
Feel a little more spacious. Something I'm interested in testing.
Amanda (55:20)
Interesting.
Nicole (55:22)
Mm.
Amanda (55:23)
I'm also interested in in how you would see that
How you would see that go with a pre launch?
Nicole (55:34)
Yeah. I mean, there'd still be a pre-launch. In my mind, a pre-laun
Amanda (55:39)
Mm.
Nicole (55:40)
a but in my mind, a pre-laun you're whenever you're not launching, you're pre-launching. So like even right
Amanda (55:46)
That's true.
Nicole (55:46)
after a launch, like, you know, you want to start sharing, we just, you know, like it can be a story email that's like telling a story about your life, but
it's great to mention, like, and you know, yesterday I had a live meeting with my decelerator program and like this person, you know, had this like to say.
And it just starts to seed
Amanda (56:04)
Mm-hmm.
Nicole (56:05)
to seed the idea, you know, that you're for the next time you launch, make people wonder, like, what's that? Like, and you know, pay attention. And it so it like lengthens it even more. But if you have three months between launches, I would be pre launching for two. And again, this is like an idea I've had. I have no results to share. It's just something I've
Amanda (56:24)
Mm-hmm.
Nicole (56:25)
been thinking about. and the other thing I'll say is that my the clients of mine that are doing exceptionally well right now are are they have physical products.
They're they're e-com doing launches, but paper goods. So
Amanda (56:37)
Mm.
Nicole (56:39)
I think people are just really into like like people are feeling like you and I and are tired of Zoom and tired of AI and just wanna hold a book.
Amanda (56:51)
Well Amelia and I have Amelia Ruby. I just assume that if you are listening to this podcast, you know who Amelia is.
Nicole (57:01)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (57:03)
Amelia and I were talking have talked had multiple conversations over the past year where I talked about how I actually really want my business to exist in the real world.
Nicole (57:17)
Yeah.
Amanda (57:18)
And
I've said this a couple of times, never really did anything about it. I mean, I hosted at the first half of the year, I co-hosted like this amazing co-working morning with Jasmine Williams from the Reach Club and like in Toronto, and that was so much fun. And that was great. That was a a great day. and I would definitely do that again. But I actually really want to like
do client work. I I worked actually with a local brick and mortar business recently and did an audit for them and like went to the studio and we talked through the audit results and the strategy and like that was amazing. And I would love to do more in person things and I'm actually like
I've tr been trying to think about like what would a decelerator program look like in person?
Or could we do just like the audit and the visioning part in person and having a small group like around a table doing that?
Nicole (58:38)
Yeah.
Amanda (58:39)
And I was actually just before we started recording this, I
was scrolling through Instagram and I got an ad for an event that's coming up next weekend called the Small Business Market. And
Nicole (58:56)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (58:57)
I was like, my gosh, like I should get a table at a market.
Nicole (59:03)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (59:04)
And we could and it could be like, you know, Lucy
from Peanuts, like her kissing booth, but it's like my marketing audit booth.
Nicole (59:17)
Cute. I love it. Yeah.
Amanda (59:18)
Know, like something fun.
many, many, many, many years ago when I was in nutrition school, which is a long time ago now, like,
Nicole (59:28)
Ha ha.
Amanda (59:30)
and I used to go to the farmers market, and there used to be a lawyer who had a table at the farmers market, and you could ask for legal advice at the farmer's market. And I'm like,
Nicole (59:47)
That's
Amanda (59:48)
I always wanted to do that.
Nicole (59:50)
Yeah. Were people there? 'Cause you know like it booths at fairs and there's always a booth that's like solar panels for your house and no one is walking up to that booth.
Amanda (59:57)
Ha ha.
Yes.
Nicole (1:00:01)
I'd be afraid to be that there's like some deep fear in me.
Amanda (1:00:08)
Yeah.
Possibly.
I gotta I have to like go for a walk in the woods and really think about like what
does my work look like in the real world? Because I keep coming back to that. And like
Nicole (1:00:24)
Yeah.
Amanda (1:00:25)
there is no other antidote to the AI of it all that is greater and stronger than like
being in the same room as another person.
Nicole (1:00:36)
Yeah,
yeah. I mean, I'd I'd probably be in for a decelerator retreat, Amanda.
Amanda (1:00:46)
Well you gotta come to Canada though.
Nicole (1:00:47)
Yeah, I'll come to Canada. I love Toronto.
Not in the winter, but yeah. another time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amanda (1:00:53)
It it is pretty great. Well, yes, you are a Florida babe. So I don't
love Toronto in the winter either, and to be honest, the people who live here don't either.
I Okay, I have two things to say. I wanna ask you a question, like what where should I go from here? But also
Nicole (1:01:10)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Amanda (1:01:12)
I do wanna say that interesting that you are thinking about experimenting with longer launches because
Nicole (1:01:19)
Yes.
Amanda (1:01:21)
I actually
feel like I want to experiment with shorter launches.
Nicole (1:01:27)
Interesting,
like a flash sale?
Amanda (1:01:30)
Yeah.
Nicole (1:01:31)
Yeah, like three days you're talking? Yeah.
Amanda (1:01:33)
Yeah, but
and you know,
I feel like I actually feel like this was the longer launch for me. and
Nicole (1:01:41)
Mm.
Amanda (1:01:42)
I stretched it over two calendar weeks. Monday to Friday, and then I I closed it on the Thursday, the eighth,
Nicole (1:01:53)
Hm.
Amanda (1:01:54)
and programming was to start on well,
Monday, and then I realized that was a holiday.
So it would have been Tuesday. so it did feel a little bit longer, but I did that on purpose because I was like, I gotta build the demand and convert it all at the same time because
Nicole (1:02:16)
Yeah.
Amanda (1:02:17)
I didn't I kind of s I had a bit of a softball pre-launch where I use some of your open loop frameworks
Nicole (1:02:28)
Mm.
Amanda (1:02:29)
for
Holding up the mirror.
and reshaping beliefs.
Nicole (1:02:38)
Yeah. Yes. yeah.
Amanda (1:02:42)
But softly.
Nicole (1:02:47)
okay. Yeah. And when I let me think. When I I think that it depends so much on the offer, right? Like the price point. like I was even thinking, like, should I for 2027 like give people like here is my launch calendar. Like, think ahead. Like,
Amanda (1:03:08)
Mm
Nicole (1:03:09)
I'm gonna be launching the launch line.
on this isn't real for anyone listening. I haven't decided this yet. So but I'm gonna be launching the launch line on January 14th.
Amanda (1:03:20)
Mm.
Nicole (1:03:21)
like and tell people like now, right? So that they're aware it's coming up. Because again, like launching compounds. So if they've seen you launch it before, they know what it is. and if timing wasn't right, this way they can put it on their calendar, budget, you know, all the things that I think are more important these days.
than maybe they used to be, with
Amanda (1:03:45)
Yeah.
Nicole (1:03:46)
money and trust and all all of that. And also I I mean the launches that I see do the do the best are very, very like live and responsive. Like using, like answering real questions, real time, you know, like very, very tapped into VOC and the way that people are talking about the problems, like in this moment, because things do feel to be changing really fast. so I think
Amanda (1:04:10)
Mm, mm.
Nicole (1:04:11)
like
Refreshing emails is extra important.
Amanda (1:04:16)
Yeah. And I think I mean I'll
at the end of the day, if I could kind of like recap the postmortem, right?
Nicole (1:04:23)
Mm.
Amanda (1:04:28)
I think for me too and I've I know this about myself, but this is a very difficult truth to accept, which is
I I mean I'm a great writer.
I know this.
Nicole (1:04:45)
Yes.
Amanda (1:04:46)
I'm a better yapper. You know? Like,
Nicole (1:04:51)
Yeah.
Amanda (1:04:51)
if you've never actually listened to my voice or we haven't talked, like those my AI reading voices that I did, I do feel like the you can hear that in my writing if you have heard my voice before.
Nicole (1:05:08)
Yeah.
Amanda (1:05:09)
And I just, I don't know, maybe it has to do with like.
my human design gates and what is fully formed and where there is gaps and loops to nowhere or my astrology or my own preferences even.
Nicole (1:05:30)
Mm.
Amanda (1:05:32)
I often do feel like when I get into these where I'm in that frustrated
Place, which is out of alignment, it's like I am writing too much. I am like writing these emails that feel like screaming into the void. And and I I really actually also think that I could probably if I just talk, if I just make this podcast on a regular basis and use that as my strategy.
For connection.
Nicole (1:06:11)
Yeah.
Amanda (1:06:13)
It all probably won't.
Nicole (1:06:16)
I mean, you could I like kind of want you next launch to just launch via podcast. Like maybe not even email. Maybe your emails, like you'd have to send the emails, but the emails would be links to like listen to me, take me on your walk, you know. Cause I think a lot of people too are walking a lot and I don't know why I think that. But like listening more than maybe this is me projecting because I'm so tired of computers right now. But I've been really into podcasts lately and just like being away from my computer and listening more than reading.
And I I have had some people on my list tell me the same that like they're they just, you know, they wish that everything that I offered was in a podcast format. So I think you should just do that. Launch me a podcast and see what happens.
Amanda (1:07:02)
Well, I mean, is that not just a private podcast lead magnet?
Nicole (1:07:06)
Yes.
But but instead but instead you'd be actually selling in it.
Like your launch would be a podcast. I don't know if this is gonna work. I'm just saying
Amanda (1:07:14)
Interesting.
Nicole (1:07:16)
it's really fun to experiment. And if that's what works for you, I think you should try it.
Amanda (1:07:25)
think that's that crazy.
Nicole (1:07:29)
No, sometimes we just gotta try new things.
Amanda (1:07:31)
I mean I've I've done crazier ideas like try and get Chat GPT to admit
Nicole (1:07:38)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (1:07:39)
that they were wrong.
Nicole (1:07:43)
Yeah. I'd I think I think what's what I'm saying is that I really feel like we're in a moment where we just have to try something different. You know, like something different in the way we launch an email.
Amanda (1:08:00)
Yeah. I I do feel like I do feel like I gotta also get out of my email bubble.
Nicole (1:08:09)
Mm.
Amanda (1:08:11)
I love email. I love
Nicole (1:08:13)
Yeah.
Amanda (1:08:14)
email. I think email is so powerful. I just don't know that it's exactly the right medium for me.
Nicole (1:08:27)
Hmm. Wait, so what do you mean? Like social media?
Amanda (1:08:28)
All the time, said
I Well
I think him.
I earlier this week I did rearrange all the furniture in my den so that I
Nicole (1:08:49)
Mm.
Amanda (1:08:49)
could make a video by the good light.
Nicole (1:08:52)
Mm.
Amanda (1:08:54)
made some videos. I
Nicole (1:08:56)
Are you gonna yap?
You might yeah.
Amanda (1:09:04)
Might yeah.
Nicole (1:09:06)
I mean, you're really good at it.
Amanda (1:09:09)
I know and like but the thing is I've been so mean about the yapping. But also is it because I was triggered because I wanna yap?
Nicole (1:09:19)
Are you gonna get one of those little microphones?
Amanda (1:09:21)
It's in my cart.
Nicole (1:09:25)
I support this. I want it on the record. Fully support. Go for
Amanda (1:09:30)
Ha
Nicole (1:09:30)
it. We're all I mean, we all we know this in business. Sometimes we gotta do something that we two days ago said was cringe. You just gotta try.
Amanda (1:09:39)
Right.
Nicole (1:09:40)
Yeah. It's it's just part of the game.
Amanda (1:09:44)
It's true. It's true. All right.
Nicole (1:09:48)
You send me
you send me, I will like them and I will comment.
Amanda (1:09:52)
And I will send you the link.
Just comment, decelerate, and I'll send you the link to learn more.
Nicole (1:10:06)
I can't wait to get that many chats.
Amanda (1:10:09)
there's this woman that I I follow on Instagram and I love her. She's actually been one of my main inspirations her name is Kylie Parati.
Kylie, if you're listening, I love you. her Instagram handle is Tried and True Recipes. And every week she makes a very large bowl of overnight oats. And she makes other things too, but the overnight oats is really the premium content. But she calls it gloop.
Nicole (1:10:49)
Okay.
Amanda (1:10:50)
And she wears a sweatshirt that says gloop, glaf, gliv.
This is the thing, like I need
to accept that actually I love social media because she
Nicole (1:11:03)
Wait, is she selling anything?
Amanda (1:11:06)
I think you might be able to buy the sweatshirt.
Nicole (1:11:09)
Okay. Okay.
Amanda (1:11:12)
and so I think she might actually be doing comedy.
And this is part of the reason why I love her so much. Like, yes, she makes recipes and she does food influencer stuff, but she's so funny. not the least of which is the fact that she calls it gloop. But
Nicole (1:11:35)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda (1:11:36)
she made this one video that was like, I will never make you comment recipe for the recipe. And then it was like, lol, because I
I don't know how that works.
I just thought that was very it was just so delightful. So delightful.
Nicole (1:11:51)
That's delightful. That's delightful. Yeah. Yeah.
Amanda (1:11:57)
All right. Well, it is turkey time. Thank you
Nicole (1:12:00)
yes.
Amanda (1:12:01)
for being game to record this absolutely unhinged podcast episode, Nicole.
Nicole (1:12:11)
it was a delight.
Amanda (1:12:13)
where can listeners find out more about you and your work and follow along for your next launch?
Nicole (1:12:20)
my gosh. copypoetics.com. That is it. Go there. I've got freebies. Grab a
Amanda (1:12:27)
And they're good.
Nicole (1:12:28)
freebie. What?
Amanda (1:12:30)
And they're good.
Nicole (1:12:30)
And they're good. Yeah. Sales page. I finally put the sales page spellbook on my homepage So you should grab it. It's a fun one. yeah.
Amanda (1:12:38)
It is a good one and actually
while I was prepping for this launch I used the checklist.
Nicole (1:12:46)
and I was just telling saying how bad a checklist lead magnet is. Yes, that's true.
Amanda (1:12:50)
Hey, well, it's not just a t it's not just a checklist. It's
it's much more. It's a full toolkit gives you everything you need to zhuz up your sales page. But clearly
Nicole (1:13:02)
Yeah, so there are videos.
Amanda (1:13:03)
it didn't do anything for me.
Well, I hope you have a wonderful weekend. Thank you so much.
Nicole (1:13:12)
Thank you.
Amanda (1:13:13)
Bye.
